Ihsahn interview

Interview by Davide Sciaky

Puoi leggere l’intervista in italiano qui.

Welcome to TrueMetal. 

Thank you!

My first question today, of course, is about the new album which you are about to release. It’s your eighth solo album and it’s titled “Ihsahn”. Why did you choose for this album to be self-titled? I mean, sometimes it’s the first album, sometimes it’s one that is very significant. So, why this choice? Is it particularly significant?

Well, that was not the reason for me, you know, choosing that. It was, you know, it’s a tradition. As you mentioned, it’s either the first one or somewhere down the line. For me it was – given the kind of complexity of the whole thing with all these dual layers, and parallel stories and all that went into it – I found it hard to find one title that could kind of capture, you know, all of that. And, even though it’s kind of diverse and spread out in different versions and all that, at the heart of it, it’s really core elements that kind of goes, you know, shines through to my entire career, if you will. The Black Metal aspects, orchestral arrangements, you know, hints to Greek mythology, et cetera, and like these archetypical things. So, at the heart of it, it’s really very core ingredients to what I do. And then I thought, you know, this is as good a time as any [laughs]. But I think all the people at the record label made a bigger deal out of it being self-titled than what I did. But I guess all my albums are, of course, special to me in some way. But if it’s a special thing, I’m happy for it to be this. It was quite a big undertaking for me personally, the biggest project I’ve ever done. So, in that regard, it fits. 

That’s interesting. So, of course, one of the first things that one notices about this album is that there are two versions of it, the Metal one and the orchestral one. I’ve been listening to them for some time and I was really impressed by how they work well separately and independently. Can you tell me about this idea to make these two versions of the album? Like, first of all, how did it start? Were you just writing an album and you realised that it was working well in two different versions? Or was it the idea that you set to mind when you started working on it? 

It was the idea from the start. So, this album is all about this kind of push-pull, this kind of duality of existence, if we were to boil it down. And I guess just also from interest and from experience, of course, I’ve been doing a lot of orchestrations for my own albums and in Emperor and also for other bands in the past. And, of course, it’s always the fact that some of the nuances of an orchestral arrangement gets lost in the density of a Metal production. And also, sometimes if you pull out the big guns of the orchestra on already dense Metal production, you end up in a situation where you try to squeeze two large things into the small audio spectrum of a stereo file. So, by nature, I wanted to explore the arrangements in such a way that where the Metal parts were kind of dense and overwhelming, that the orchestra could step back and the other way around. And in that regard, essentially, both these kinds of two ensembles play the same things, but it becomes like a push-pull between the two ensembles. And that way, I could explore a deeper and more diverse interpretation of literally the same music. I’ve been using the Pilgrimage to Oblivion, the first single, as an example, because that’s undeniably the hardest track on the album. Scaled, run and boom, straight into blast beats and screaming vocals. And the counterpart, the orchestral version of that, starts with whispery quiet tremolo cellos, you know, but it’s at the heart of it, it’s the same riff. It’s even in the same range. So it’s like, it’s the same music, but it showcases different emotions. And, and of course, the reason the album was so hard to make was, of course, this puzzle, you know, making something… if I wrote the album first, and then did the orchestral versions afterwards, that would be, not easy, but easier. But to kind of try to make it fit as a support for the Metal production, but then in such a way that it functions as its own individual thing… that’s why I had to kind of write everything like that from the beginning.

And I guess this is also the reason why it took so long for it to be released while with all your previous albums, the gap between two albums was much shorter.

Of course, it took longer than usual. It’s been six years since my previous full length.

But in between, I’ve released three EPs, one of which I recorded in the middle of writing and recording this album. And during the pandemic, of course, where I started out this work, I also produced an album for Matt Heafy. I did the orchestral and keyboard arrangements for one of their Trivium records.I did remixes for The Halo Effect and Lustmord. And also, when the pandemic ended, there was a lot of scheduled touring that needed to happen. So it’s not like I’ve been laying on the couch, and I’ve just been working on this album. But I think it gave it, as a consequence, the necessary objectivity along the way. Because usually I like to stay focused on one project at a time. But of course all these circumstances made it impossible. So I really needed to finish one layer of the album recording and arrangement and then do other stuff and come back to it. But probably that was a good idea. And I delivered the masters on April 1st last year, so it’s also post-production, making videos and, you know, scheduling everything that’s made it take this long.

I know that the album is a concept. Can you tell me a bit about that?

Well, obviously the orchestral elements of this is, you know, hugely influenced by the classic golden age of Hollywood-ish soundtracks.

And, you know, this is something that I’ve been a fan of since just as long as I’ve been a fan of Metal.

And, of course, I do love all the modern stuff, the hybrid stuff, Hans Zimmer stuff as well.

But for this particular album, I wanted to go really deep with just the classic orchestral arrangements, you know, Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams, Bernard Herrmann, you know, the old school stuff.

And by doing a conceptual album, this gave me the opportunity to have lyrics that went with a storyline,

but also to have motifs, you know, recurring motifs that pop-up in different songs, et cetera. So that’s the reason for, I always have these kinds of conceptual frameworks for my albums. But this is the first time I’ve actually made a chronological narrative, like I wrote like a synopsis for a novel, and then the lyrics are like scenes from that storyline.

Right, and I had the lyrics, which doesn’t happen very often with promos, and I’ve seen that they are very descriptive, they evoked very clear pictures in my mind. So I was thinking, you never shied away from experimenting with your music, and of course this album having two versions is no exception, so I was wondering if you ever thought of creating maybe a sort of movie or short movie adaptation from this album, because I think it would work really well. 

Well, thank you, I’m ambitious but not that ambitious [laughs]. For me it was a nice backbone to form this kind of framework for the album to fit into and, you know, enough of a consistency and hints of cohesion that, hopefully, will spark the listeners imagination. Of course the three singles, the accompanying videos for the three singles, kind of, in a rather abstract way hint to the progression of the storyline and the protagonist’s journey, in a way. But just vaguely.The three videos in succession kind of form almost an abstract short film of the narrative, and the three parallel orchestral singles illustrate the storyline that goes into the orchestral version which is a parallel storyline, but totally independent of the main storyline, although they bleed into each other in some parts, and Costin Chioreanu did beautiful animations showcasing that story. So, in a way I’ve done it, but not as an actual “film film”. I’m not a writer [laughs] I’ll leave that to the professionals [laughs].

With this dual aspect of the album being so important, I was a bit surprised to see that they are being sold separately, even though maybe there’s a deluxe version with both versions. Was this a decision from the label, or were you part of this choice?

No, I think it’s, since they are separated, I think that that’s the whole point. Because if it was just like, you know, an addition to the same, you know, of course you get it in one package, the deluxe. And I’m very proud of that because also like the music, the artwork that Richie Osarese and I developed for this follows the same concept. So literally there’s the orchestral layout of the album, which has no lyrics, of course, nothing, but it’s the same images. And then the Metal version of that is just like the front cover is just like more antlers and the pictures inside have more dark edges to it and dark parts and all those lyrics and everything. So it’s literally the same thing. So underneath, just like in the Metal version, the kind of orchestral version lies beneath everything. And the deluxe version, if you go back and watch it, you know, it has this, you know, visual effect. So when you tilt it, you actually see both covers. You know, like you see the Metal cover and you see the, yeah, that’s the, that’s the cool thing. But yeah, it’s separate things and not, because it’s not a remix, you know, it’s, it’s meant to function as its own thing. And perhaps also for people who, who are not attuned to the more [extreme vocals], the Black Metal vocals and everything might appreciate this as a separate thing. So I wanted that to be, to be two releases. So I think this, this special combination is the deluxe version where you actually get both. 

Your music as Ihsahn, I think in many ways is the natural progression of what you did in Emperor, of course, moving into new sonic territories and developing further. And so I was wondering if you think that the audience who follows your solo stuff is much different from the fans of Emperor, or if they are pretty much the same people? 

I think it’s a mix. I think my music is, you know, as a solo artist is probably too diverse and, and uh, progressive maybe for the old school Emperor fans. But I bet for maybe Emperor fans who kind of fall into, you know, the Prometheus album and the more progressive elements…. Arguably I did the Prometheus album on my own. I wrote everything. So that was kind of the same trajectory, if you will [laughs]. They might find my solo work more palatable. So I think it’s a mix. And also there’s a lot of people that I meet who kind of got into my music because of the progressive elements and are not too keen on Emperor because it’s kind of too dark or too old school for them. 

Talking about Emperor, since you started with Emperor, Black Metal has seen a very, almost unbelievable evolution arc and going from a very small underground scene, young musicians playing together, to of course the crimes that happened, to being a point where now it’s considered an important Norwegian cultural export, to even popping up in very unexpected contexts, like when a few weeks ago Kanye West was seen wearing a Burzum t-shirt.

Yeah, but a lot of the fun of this thing is that we were pointed to, just like a pop cultural thing. The guy that did the Emperor logo, that drew the Emperor logo ended up being hired to do – because of you know

his association with doing logos like that – to do a live logo for Rihanna. Rihanna did live shows with this kind of old school Black Metal style logo saying “Rihanna”. So yeah, but that’s just how everything is, isn’t it? It’s an underground thing and people hate it and think it’s the worst. And can I say, for me personally, that whole development has just given me a very healthy perspective on how to relate to my own music and I always just do it for myself and to the best of my ability. I never take into any consideration what people might think or whatever because that’s something that I have absolutely no control over. And I have lived to see the proof of that as well, that the early Emperor recordings and the albums were absolutely hated by also the Metal, the more established Metal community. We were ridiculed and frowned upon. And then give it 10, 15, 20 years and the same mediums hold up these records as pillars of importance and blah, blah, blah. And literally, the albums are what they are. And it’s just the market and the media, when they wanted it to be the bad stuff, it was the bad stuff. And then they changed their mind and now they’re supposed to be the good stuff. The albums are what they are. So you never know. And I think that it’s a good thing. Unfortunately, that makes it harder for me to appreciate… I do appreciate it, but to be honest, it’s like it doesn’t do too much for me with getting raving reviews. It’s nice, it’s like any compliment, but it’s not something that I take to heart because I’ve always had to find the satisfaction of the finished product on my own. Regardless of whether people like it or not. Which I think is the best position to be in if you’re going to do something genuine in the first place. 

Yeah, this seems to be a very common thing. I was talking with Tom Warrior a while back and he told me about how when he started with Hellhammer, people, there were some reviews saying it was the worst thing to ever happen to music. And now he’s playing the same music and his headlining festivals. So like, people really changed ideas. 

You can’t really pay attention to, especially if you want to do something genuine and new and…I mean, what artists were ever in sync with their audience? You know, every artist who was part of creating, you know, pushing the boundary further was always frowned upon. And people only get to see the success stories in a sense because that’s what’s out there. I’ve also talked to, you know, artists that are older than me that, in my mind, they’ve been like, just praised since the beginning. And they’re telling me like, man, I’ve had 30 years of, you know, shit thrown my way. You know, so it’s, it’s just how it is. And this is advice I try to give to younger musicians as well. You cannot take this into consideration. You know, you do it for yourself to the point where you’re super proud of what you made regardless. And if someone else gets pleasure out of what you created and attached to it, that’s an added bonus. But even if no one does, no one can take away your relationship to that piece of music and that journey that you took to make it. So, it has to be about that. 

Right. So just to close this question, because I think our time is almost over. What I wanted to ask you about actually, talking about this whole evolution arc of Black Metal, is: looking back on all that happened, all the different perceptions and everything. What’s the thing that seems the craziest to you looking back on that happened in the genre, in the scene or anything? 

Probably, probably that, you know, doing the most extreme and most hated and most oppositional music we could possibly make, for some strange reason I’m here, you know, almost 35 years later. You know, having it as it’s been my life since I was 16 to be, have a life in music and uncompromisingly be able to do what I do. Not only in Emperor, but also now almost 20 years into my solo career. That’s the craziest part. [laughs] 

Definitely. And it’s great that you are still able to do that because I mean, you’re putting out some crazy good music. 

Thank you!

I’m glad that it worked out. 

Me too. I’m not good for anything else [laughs]. 

Right, I think our time is over. So, thank you very much for taking the time. 

Thank you so much for the support. 

We’ll see you with Emperor in Italy this next summer. 

I’m looking forward to it. It’s not that long since we were there last, but prior to that, it was almost two decades, I think. Yeah. It was crazy. But… yeah, I love Italy. Love Italian food. 

Classic. 

[Laughs] What’s not to like?