Intervista Summoning (Silenius)
One month after the release of “With Doom We Come” we’ve had the opportunity to interview Silenius, aka Michael Gregor, one of the two members of the legendary Summoning. Not only he talks about the new album, its sounds and its lyrics, but he also tells us about how Tolkien‘s books changed his life, how he almost died, and how Summoning nearly broke up.
Hi and welcome on Truemetal.it! Thank you for accepting to do this interview! How are you? I guess the post-release weeks must be quite stressful.
Silenius: Yes, indeed. Beside the stressful promotion work, I lost my job at the end of last year, so I have to find a new one and doing courses beside. And I have to look after my mother who will have a serious operation this month.
«Old Mornings Dawn» and «With Doom We Come» have a lot in common, from Protector’s singing and the use of new synth sounds to the overall feeling of the album, which is more nostalgic when compared to the previous albums, such as «Oath Bound». Is this a ‘new era’ for Summoning?
No, it is not a new era, quite the contrary. All in all, I see the new album as a kind of follow up, or little brother to «Old Mornings Dawn», simply because it was created and built up from riffs and even unfinished songs from that session. Therefore we also tried to find a similar sound, especially for the guitars.
As most of the keyboard melodies are on the same level without any melody in the front, it maybe sounds a bit less epic but more melancholic. The black metal elements are a bit more present this time. We always try to mix traditional keyboard sounds like trumpets, horns, violins etc. with some new “world instrument” sounds to bring more variety into the music and of course we work with sound samples to bring an ambient mood into the songs.
The vocal style of protector is not new. He did that since ‘Long lost to where no pathways go’ from the «Stronghold» album. But maybe the experience is denser this time, because a lot of people seem to realize it for the first time. The new album definitely carries a nostalgic touch. Songs like ‘Mirklands’ easily could stand on «Dol Guldur». It is a mixture of old and new…
Based on what I’ve read on your website some time ago, I almost had the impression that you split up the band after an album is done, and you come back together when you feel the inspiration of writing new music. Is there any truth to that or is the band always active?
Yes and no. Usually when an album is released and the promo work is done both of us go separate ways. It is not that we hang around privately together. Usually, we care about our own private lives or work for other musical projects or bands like Ice Ages, Abigor, Kreuzweg Ost or Amestigon.
But this time the band really nearly split up because of endless quarrels and struggles about the sound, not only the overall sound but also the finding of the right keyboard sound for different melodies. After two years of trial and error, we were quite frustrated. And finally we wanted to give up and leave everything unfinished. We decided to make a break for some weeks and make a new start after a long clearing conversation. Luckily we found back on the track and the album could be finished.
Silenius e Protector
How was the process of writing ‘With Doom We Come’? Did you work on every song together or did you work separately?
No, the working process is always the same. The only difference was that this time we already had some material left from the «Old Mornings Dawn» session. That was fine because starting from point zero is always the most difficult thing to start an album.
Usually, I compose the first and second melody lines before Protector is adding his ideas, but sometimes is also the other way round. When all the keyboard work is done, Protector adds the drum patterns and the guitars. In this time I collect possible lyrics and paintings for the cover and booklet and try to build up a lyrical and visual concept for the album. Then we share the vocals and in the end we add some sound and spoken word samples to make everything sound more alive and vital. In the very end stadium of the production, we add the choirs.
One of the biggest differences between ‘Oath Bound’ and the latest two albums is the mixing. Especially in ‘With Doom We Come’, the sound is a lot more clear and crystalline, whereas on the previous album it was darker. What is the reason behind this change? Was it the search for a different atmosphere?
On «Oath Bound» the guitar sound was high pitched and quite thin, therefore we could make the drums sound louder and bombastic. On the follow-up releases, it was the other way round. Generally, Protector tried to make a similar sound to «Old Mornings Dawn», but a big difference is that this time the keyboard melodies are on an equal level. Normally the lead melodies are put into the forefront.
Personally, I prefer the sound from «Old Mornings Dawn», Protector likes the new one, and I know a lot of fans who would like us to return to the «Oath Bound» sound. So we will see what the future will bring.
My personal favorite song on the new album is ‘Silvertine’: in that song, Silenius’ voice is at its best and I also love the ghastly-epic sound of the synth and the overall pace of the song. I noticed that various reviewers and lots of fans also share this opinion. Can you tell us something more about Silvertine and how it was born?
Yes, I also noticed that this song is the favorite of most of the fans. It simply has the most catchy melody lines and is a bit more uptempo then the rest of the album. I have not too much remembrance of the composing process of this album, but originally [‘SIlvertine’] lyrically should be a follow up to ‘Tar-calion’: sailing against the immortal lands. Hearing those melodies made me imagine of an armada sailing the open seas, but in the end the supposed lyrics did not fit at all to the rhythm and structure of the song and so we put more reverb over some melodies to create an icy feeling and so the mood changed drastically from open water up to a frosty mountain.
Before I start to sing I usually train my vocals to get this raspy sound. We used that training as a kind of intro to that song.
The lyrics for ‘Herumor’ are written by E. A. Poe, which seems to be an unusual choice for you. Can you tell us more about it?
I found the book «Tales and poems of Edgar Allan Poe» in a bookshop. I bought it and tried to find lyrics which I could weave into the middle earth concept. I liked the poem called ‘Alone’ and thought which person it could fit. And so slowly the idea of Herumor was born. A driven character making fatal decisions while longing for power. I heard that also Arcturus used this lyrics on one of their albums. By the way, the lyrics of ‘Night fell behind’ are also taken from the mentioned book.
The new album is based a lot on the ‘Silmarillion’. You were one of the first metal bands to base its lyrics upon Tolkien’s works and, even more notably, to actually be fans of his works in the ‘90s, when they were still not really mainstream reads. Can you tell us how you’ve discovered Tolkien’s works (and especially the ‘Silmarillion’) when practically nobody else knew them? What is your personal relationship with his works?
Well, I would not say that his works were not famous in the Nineties, quite the opposite. The triumphant march of «The Lord Of The Rings» and «The Hobbit» began in the Seventies in America when the books for the first time were printed as cheap pocketbooks and discovered by the students. The hippie-esque, weed-smoking Hobbits pushed into an epic sword and sorcery adventure touched the fascination of a whole generation. This was the cornerstone of Tolkien’s immense success.
When I was a teenager I was already a big fan of fantasy literature before Tolkien crossed my way. I knew the cartoon movie and a friend told me how the story ended, so for some time I did not read his books. But then I realized that nearly each other fantasy writer made references to Tolkien and every second fantasy book was advertised as ‘for fans of lord of the rings’. So I gave it a try and that was the start of my Tolkien worshiping… From that moment I bought everything from and about Tolkien. This creation of a whole detailed world was unbelievable.
Do you feel that making music about Arda has now lost part of its charm since it has become more common? Have you ever wanted to just stop using Tolkien’s poems as lyrics to dedicate yourself fully to another, lesser known author?
Of course the [“Lord of the Rings”] movies brought Tolkien to the Olympus in terms of popularity, commercialization and mass appeal. But this does not make his creation less great. I think shortly after «Dol Guldur» was released we, for a short time, played with the idea of making a concept album about the German myth of «Das Nibelungenlied» but luckily we decided against it. So in the [end] of our days our work can be seen as a unity, conceptual and visual.
One of the reasons you’re going to be remembered in the history of metal music is how you innovated and transcended the black metal genre, basically inventing a new sub-genre. A lot of bands have followed your path, either by drawing inspiration from your sound or by simply copying it. What is your opinion on the whole genre you’ve started? Is it too derivative or do you enjoy/listen to these bands?
There was no master plan behind it, but seeing it from nowadays it is quite funny, because deciding to lay the priority into keyboards and drum samples is normally the death of a metal band or you are banished into the kitschy music, like the gothic metal genre. I think the acceptance of this was formed and created by Burzum. The idea that one band can have two different faces – a metal face and an ambient face – is a great idea. We just put both sides together and formed something on our own.
Of course it is an honour for us to inspire younger generations and I am pretty sure that some of those bands one day will take over the torch and pass it unto new musical territories.
In 2011 you had a heart attack and I can’t even imagine what the experience was like. Did this experience change your approach to music and to Summoning?
It did not change my approach to Summoning but in that time it definitely brought my motivation back to compose for that band. Before I lost my interest and for example Kreuzweg Ost was more important for me. Beside that, I drank a lot of alcohol, which made me lazy and unproductive, like Theoden under the spell of Saruman.
The heart attack hit me in a restaurant. It was not really painful and felt like a pressure against the heart. First I thought it was a pinched nerve and wanted to go home and sleep for a while. Luckily I did not do that, because then I would have been dead now. My advantage was that I came to the hospital quickly and was operated at once. So I have no consequential damages and can make mountain runs again. But if it would have happened some hours earlier in the woods I also would not sit here now making this interview…
How important is the fact of you two being almost anonymous? We know your names and vaguely where you’re from, but that’s it: you usually don’t publish pictures and you’re not very active on social media. Is it an artistic choice to keep an aura of mystery or is it a way to protect your private lives?
In the beginning of the black metal movement it was natural to make unclear and mysterious photos to transport an image around your music. We just copied our heroes, but somehow, when black metal became popular and later commercial, every protagonist all at once wanted to present himself or become famous or whatever. We did not make this switch and kept anonymous.
That has a pleasant effect: while all the other bands are getting old on their band photos we are staying young…
Let’s end the interview on a silly note: how do you feel about Shakira plagiarizing ‘The Passing Of The Grey Company’ in the trumpet melody at the beginning of her famous song ‘Hips Don’t Lie’?
I can remember that people mentioned this from time to time but I always forgot to listen to that Shakira song, but I will do it now.
Finally, jokes aside, I just want to thank you for your time and for all your amazing music. You’ve made possible for a lot of people to dream and to escape in a fantasy world and we will always be grateful for that.
Thank you! Thanks for the interview and up the hammers to our fans in Italy!
Francesco “Gabba” Gabaglio